Tax Forms, Letter, and Script for Collecting Debts

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Tax Forms, Letter, and Script for Collecting Debts

For People Collecting a Debt Someone Owes Them

 

Lots of people suffer from inability to collect debts others owe them.  Want some examples? 

 

·         Child support

·         Divorce settlements

·         Personal loans to friends, family, neighbors

·         Sales of products or services on credit

·         Judgment liens

·         Damage to your car or other property, or your person from an uninsured motorist or other injurer

 

You can always sue to collect the debt.  While government will not jail a person for the debt, the court will certainly jail a debtor for contempt of court arising from disobeying a judge’s order without good cause.  But, as everyone knows, lawsuits cost a lot of time and money and unreliably produce rulings favoring the creditor or other injured party.  The party who ought to win will often lose against the party who ought to lose, just because of having an incompetent lawyer.  For that and many more reasons, people often forgive or cancel the debts others owe them.

 

That just does not seem right to me.  So, I write to propose a method of enlisting the support of the IRS in collecting an otherwise uncollectable debt.

 

The 1099-C IRS form provides a mechanism for reporting your debtor’s forgiven/cancelled/uncollectable debt to the IRS.  This adds to the taxable income of the debtor and puts the debtor on the IRS radar.  That could spell “DISASTER” for the debtor, striking fear into the debtor’s heart and motivating the debtor to pay up to avoid becoming noticed by the IRS.

 

The W-9 form allows you to obtain the debtor’s Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) which you will need to put on the 1099-C. 

 

If you fill out both forms and send them with a dun letter alerting the debtor of your need for the TIN and intent to file the 1099-C for cancellation of the debt if the debtor refuses to pay, that might stimulate the debtor to pay up fast.   

 

 

Product Number	Title	Revision Date	Posted Date
Form W-9	Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification	0111	01/29/2011
Inst W-9	Instructions for the Requestor of Form W-9, Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification	0111	02/19/2011
Inst 1099-A and 1099-C	Instructions for Forms 1099-A and 1099-C, Acquisition or Abandonment of Secured Property and Cancellation of Debt	2011	05/12/2011
Form 1099-C	Cancellation of Debt (Info Copy Only)	2011	11/11/2010

 

Obey Credit Extension, Reporting, and Collection Laws

 

I would make certain I complied with state and federal laws regarding credit extension, reporting, and collection.

 

In particular, review 15 USC 1692, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and 15 USC 1681, the Fair Credit Reporting Act, and other consumer credit laws beginning with 15 USC 1601. 

 

In debt collection, you might have extended credit without a wordy contract, but with a simple invoice on 30-day net terms.  The Uniform Commercial Code provides guidance when you have no contract.  In the event your customer violates the terms of your invoice, and you have to go to extraordinary lengths to collect the debt, you have the right and the moral duty to report the customer to the credit reporting agencies, and similarly make a report when the customer pays the debt.

 

Here I provide links to the afore-mentioned laws.  Click on the Section numbers to view the text on-line.

United States Code TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 41 > SUBCHAPTER V - DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICES

·    § 1692. Congressional findings and declaration of purpose

·    § 1692a. Definitions

·    § 1692b. Acquisition of location information

·    § 1692c. Communication in connection with debt collection

·    § 1692d. Harassment or abuse

·    § 1692e. False or misleading representations

·    § 1692f. Unfair practices

·    § 1692g. Validation of debts

·    § 1692h. Multiple debts

·    § 1692i. Legal actions by debt collectors

·    § 1692j. Furnishing certain deceptive forms

·    § 1692k. Civil liability

·    § 1692l. Administrative enforcement

·    § 1692m. Reports to Congress by the Commission; views of other Federal agencies

·    § 1692n. Relation to State laws

·    § 1692o. Exemption for State regulation

·    § 1692p. Exception for certain bad check enforcement programs operated by private entities

United States Code TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 41 > SUBCHAPTER III - CREDIT REPORTING AGENCIES

·    § 1681. Congressional findings and statement of purpose

·    § 1681a. Definitions; rules of construction

·    § 1681b. Permissible purposes of consumer reports

·    § 1681c. Requirements relating to information contained in consumer reports

·    § 1681c-1. Identity theft prevention; fraud alerts and active duty alerts

·    § 1681c-2. Block of information resulting from identity theft

·    § 1681d. Disclosure of investigative consumer reports

·    § 1681e. Compliance procedures

·    § 1681f. Disclosures to governmental agencies

·    § 1681g. Disclosures to consumers

·    § 1681h. Conditions and form of disclosure to consumers

·    § 1681i. Procedure in case of disputed accuracy

·    § 1681j. Charges for certain disclosures

·    § 1681k. Public record information for employment purposes

·    § 1681l. Restrictions on investigative consumer reports

·    § 1681m. Requirements on users of consumer reports

·    § 1681n. Civil liability for willful noncompliance

·    § 1681o. Civil liability for negligent noncompliance

·    § 1681p. Jurisdiction of courts; limitation of actions

·    § 1681q. Obtaining information under false pretenses

·    § 1681r. Unauthorized disclosures by officers or employees

·    § 1681s. Administrative enforcement

·    § 1681s-1. Information on overdue child support obligations

·    § 1681s-2. Responsibilities of furnishers of information to consumer reporting agencies

·    § 1681s-3. Affiliate sharing

·    § 1681t. Relation to State laws

·    § 1681u. Disclosures to FBI for counterintelligence purposes

·    § 1681v. Disclosures to governmental agencies for counterterrorism purposes

·    § 1681w. Disposal of records

·    § 1681x. Corporate and technological circumvention prohibited

Motivational Letter to Debtor

 

Most debtors don’t want to cheat a supplier. However, in hard and good economic times, debtors sometimes put all kinds of other priorities ahead of paying the debt to a supplier.  If one of your debtors does that for the debt owed to you, you must take some action to motivate the debtor to pay you before paying other obligations. 

 

Fear often motivates debtors pretty well.  Creditor A, a nice guy, never gets paid first.  Creditor B, a belligerent bastard usually gets paid first because debtors fear the bellicose manners of the creditor.  Thus, if you increase the fear the customer feels, such as fear of detection by the IRS, the customer might elevate the debt to you in his priority list. 

 

You could sue, but that costs a lot of time and money and requires your presence in court.  Ideally, you can use personal communication to motivate your debtor to pay you.  Do you think a letter like the hypothetical one below might get that debt paid quickly?  After tailoring it to your own use, and before mailing it out, clear its language with an attorney to make sure it does not violate any laws or put you at undue risk.

 

Be sure to use a yellow marker to highlight the “cancellation of debt” portion of the W-9 Form.  This way, you make it really obvious that the form relates to the debtor’s debt to you.

 

********* HYPOTHETICAL Motivational Letter to Debtor ***********

 

XYZ Company XYZ Address XYZ City, State ZIP   Date   Frankie Customer Customer Address Customer City, State, ZIP   Re:  Account Number - Report to Credit Agencies and IRS Regarding Your Debt to XYZ   Dear Frankie:   I write to you about the money you owe my company XYZ on the attached overdue invoice.  You might not realize it, but your failure to pay XYZ has put me, my family, and XYZ Company in a financial bind.  Taken alone it might matter so much, but when others have also failed to pay XYZ as they agreed, your failure really HURTs us.  So I ask once again that you pay the debt immediately.   Since you have failed to respond to my previous requests with payment, I have concluded that you intend not to pay us at all, not ever.  That really hurts us because it means that I have to enter information into your account with us that prohibits our sales department from ever doing business with you again, not EVER, unless you pay the debt in full with interest and late fees.   As a consequence of your failure to pay XYZ after repeated requests for payment, I have given up hope that you might pay XYZ.  And so, I have decided to take some actions that might motivate you not to hurt others with refusal to pay your debts.   1.        I shall report your repeated refusal to pay XYZ to all three of the main credit reporting agencies - Transunion, Experian, and Equifax.  They will notate your account with “not paid as agreed.”  That will hurt your credit score.  Your lowered score might make it impossible for you to obtain any loan or credit, even in an emergency.  Even your extended family might ignore your pleas for money.  Maybe, only the Mafia might lend money to you, charging charge you 300% monthly interest and collectiong the debt at gunpoint or with a baseball bat.  2.      I shall report your final refusal to pay XYZ to the IRS on a 1099-C form as an uncollectable debt.  a.      The IRS will add the money you owe XYZ to your taxable income.  If you have avoided paying your tax in the past, this might put you on the IRS radar.  If it does, the IRS will come after you for ALL the debt you owe them, including the tax on this unpaid debt.  They will demand payment, and they will get it.  b.      Unlike XYZ, the IRS might send agents to your home or workplace to collect the debt.  They might subpoena your banking records and talk with your friends, family, and neighbors to find out what assets you have.  They have become quite expert at finding hidden assets, and typically treat trusts as a taxpayer’s alter ego.  c.       Like XYZ, the IRS will complaint about you to the credit reporting agencies.  They will harass you with debt collection letters.  d.      Unlike XYZ, the IRS will, without a court order, file liens against you in your home county and surrounding counties where they suspect you have assets.  They will find your bank accounts, gold and silver accounts, and investment accounts, and they will put liens on them.  e.      Unlike XYZ, the IRS will, without a court order, file notices of levy with your employer, the Social Security Administration, and banks.  Those “friends of yours” will snatch the money they want from your wages and savings, and hand it over to the IRS.  f.        Unlike XYZ, the IRS will pad your debt to them with $500 late penalties, with huge interest, and, when you present them with frivolous arguments, with $5000 penalties.  g.      Unlike the Mafia, which might kill or maim you or your family to collect the debt, and unlike XYZ, which won’t hurt anybody, the IRS will torture you financially and legally for what might seem like an eternity, costing you thousands in defense fees.   Consequently, your spouse, children, friends, and associates might shun or abandon you as a thief or tax protestor.  h.     On top of that, once the IRS starts an investigation they might find all kinds of other unreported income, and that might lead them to accuse you of a tax crime.  You might not know that the IRS wins an enormous number of their tax crime cases, probably well over 95% of them.  If you lose such a case, you could do jail time, suffer a fine, and STILL have to pay the tax obligation.  The IRS has a well-deserved reputation for ruthlessness. i.        Neither I nor XYZ would do these things at all, but IRS agents seem to enjoy doing them.  Maybe that’s because they could thereby qualify for up to $35,000 in secret cash bonuses, just for doing a good job handling your “account.”  See this article and laws (http://law.cornell.edu) on the subject of secret cash awards                                                               i.      http://www.scribd.com/doc/26389312                                                            ii.      5 USC 4501 et seq.                                                          iii.      5 USC 5401 et seq.                                                           iv.      Internal Revenue Manual 1.2.45.6 (10-16-1992) - Delegation Order 81 (Rev. 17)                                                             v.      28 USC 602                                                           vi.      5 USC 3771                                                        vii.      5 USC 7342                                                      viii.      5 CFR 870.103                                                           ix.      5 USC 101, 102 appendix - awards kept secret                                                             x.      4 CFR 91.5 waiver of repayment of excess payment up to $10,000                                                           xi.      28 CFR 0.143, 0.11, 0.155 - waivers for others                                                        xii.      28 USC 455 exonerates judges from conflict of interest for taking secret cash awards j.        I have a simple purpose in presenting these laws to you – to get you to realize how motivated the IRS agents feel about collecting a tax debt from you on the income you obtain by not paying your debt to me.  A $35,000 Secret Cash Award provides a powerful motivation.  And note that the IRS agent doesn’t have to claim that secret money as taxable income.  So the agent gets a fat “BOUNTY” for “busting” you and others who won’t pay the tax they owe.   Frankie, I hate to have to report you to the Credit Agencies and the IRS, but if I have no way of collecting the money, I must let them know you became a deadbeat.  It’s the law.  If I don’t do it, I could get into trouble with XYZ shareholders.  We value your business, but you have left me and XYZ no choice.  We simply cannot give FREE products or services to customers who refuse to pay, for that would drive us out of business.  And, I figure that if you won’t pay XYZ, you won’t pay the IRS either, so we might as well let them target your debt for collection.  You do agree with this as a good business decision, right, Frankie?.   Okay, so let’s get the ball rolling on XYZ’s 1099-C IRS filing with respect to your debt.    In order for me to complete the 1099-C form, I shall need your Taxpayer Identification Number.  For that purpose I have attached the IRS W-9 form.   Please fill in the blanks on the W-9, include your Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN), and sign it.  Do you believe the law will punish your refusal to supply your TIN?   You may also fill in your Taxpayer Identification Number on the attached 1099-C, but don’t sign it.  That’s for XYZ to sign.   Send both forms back to me by return mail.  If I don’t receive them from you within one week from today, I’ll simply tell the IRS that you refused to cooperate, and send them the 1099-c without your Taxpayer Identification Number, but with the contact information I have for you.  I imagine you already have a place in their database, so they won’t have too much trouble finding you.   If I receive the balance you owe by return mail, then I’ll forget about reporting your uncollectable debt to the IRS, and we might continue doing business with one another.  I like that idea.  Don’t you, Frankie?   Sincerely,   My Signature My Name, My Title, XYZ Company   Attachments: 1.       Invoice 2.      W-9 3.      Sample 1099-C   CC: 1.       Accounting Department – Receivables; Taxes 2.      Legal Department – Tort Case File 3.      Outside Attorney

 

 

 

************ End of Letter ***********

 

Motivational Phone Script

 

You might save even more time and money by calling your debtor on the phone.  This phone script might work for you.  Clear it with your attorney before you use it.  Emphasize the bold-faced words to give the script the punch in the right places.

 

**************  Start of Hypothetical Phone Script ************

 

Mr. Frankie Customer? [ask expectantly and brightly, with your voice rising at the end]   Yes? I am Melissa Collector and I work for XYZ company.  I called you to save you some trouble regarding your debt to XYZ.  Do you have a moment to discuss it?   Sure, no problem. Good. The company assigned me to your account, to collect the debt, the purpose of this call.   I wanted to chat briefly before I do something that I cannot undo.  Frankie, XYZ does not want to sue its customers to collect debts.  I have determined that your debt to XYZ seems uncollectable, so I decided to notify the IRS about it. I have to do this to comply with the law and mitigate XYZ’s loss.   If I didn’t, we could get into trouble, and you want us to stay out of trouble, right Frankie?   Aw, HELL yes. Now Frankie, the IRS will consider your unpaid debt to XYZ as your taxable income.  They will expect you to pay the tax on that income, which could exceed 50%, depending on your circumstances.  Well, Frankie, I got worried that if you cannot pay XYZ, you also cannot pay the IRS.  But unlike XYZ, the IRS will investigate and discover ALL of your taxable income.  You do not want the IRS on your back, Frankie, because they can go after you for years, and you can’t even escape them by running off to a foreign country.  You want to keep them off your back, right Frankie?   I sure do.  They’re terrible. Okay.  SO, Frankie, you know the IRS will hound you mercilessly to collect any debt you owe them, and they nearly always get their money.  Did you know they will file liens and levies and snatch your money from your employer and right out of your bank account if you don’t pay what they say you owe?   You would hate that happening to you, wouldn’t you?   I sure would. See, Frankie, the IRS doesn’t treat you soft and gentle like we at XYZ do.  The IRS comes at you hard and mean.  IF the IRS agent finds other unreported income besides the money you owe XYZ, he might accuse you of a tax crime like tax evasion, fraud, conspiracy, or willful failure to file a tax return.  You could land in jail for that.  You do file tax returns, and tell the truth on them, don’t you Frankie?   Well, uh… yeah. Well anyway, Frankie, before I send the 1099-C form in to the IRS, telling them about your failure to pay the debt you owe to XYZ, I thought I’d give you a heads-up to let you know what kind of tornado of insanity and disaster they will turn your life into if you don’t pay them like you didn’t pay us.  And I figured I should let you know that the 1099-C will surely put you on their radar, and once they start investigating they might find other things for which to come after you.  We wouldn’t want that to happen.  That would be terrible, wouldn’t it, Frankie?   Yes, it would. I thought I’d toss out one final offer to you to settle your debt to XYZ.  We can go ahead and put it on your credit card and that way you can stop this IRS freight train before it comes crashing into the living room of your life, so to speak.  I can do that favor for you Frankie.  You do want to avoid this impending disaster in your life, and preserve the sanctity of your home and private affairs, don’t you, Frankie?    Oh, GOD yes! Okay. So, I need one of two things from you right now before I hang up the phone.  I need either your Taxpayer Identification Number or Social Security Number to go on the 1099-C form I plan to send to the IRS, or I need your credit card or PayPal account number to settle the debt.    Pause….   Okay, Frankie, so which card do you want to use - VISA, AMEX, Master Card, Discover, or Paypal?   Just a minute, I’ll get my wallet

 

**************  Start of Hypothetical Phone Script ************

 

Be sure to give me feedback as to improvements you make to the text of the letter and phone script, particularly if your lawyer fails to approve them as is.

 

Do this letter and script mean you can never collect the debt after sending in a 1099-C?  No.  I believe in two core principles regarding the law: 

 

1.       The squeaky wheel gets the grease,  and

2.       The law means what the judges say it means. 

 

In other words, as long as judges exist and render binding opinions in this land, and so long as you rationally seek a redress for your injuries, a judge might someday opine in your favor.  So, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER give up.

 

 

 

Bob Hurt    bh   Blog • Email    f 2460 Persian Drive #70 • Clearwater, FL 33763 USA +1 (727) 669-5511 Donate to my Law Scholarship Fund Learn civil litigation with Jurisdictionary Subscribe to Lawmen E-Letter FREE Visit the Lawmen message Archive FREE

 

Sovereign Munity - a ground for challenging invalid (and enforcing valid) public debt

In this commentary I refer to Dr Charles Lincoln's insightful analysis (for which I thank him):

When the Valid Public Debt is Questioned, Congress Must Answer

http://www.scribd.com/doc/62185939

I intend not to belabor this question, but simply to provoke additional thought and protest regarding sovereign immunity.  

Sovereign Munity 

Governments in general and judges in particular seem to grasp the cloak of sovereign immunity around their breasts to shield against attack for errors, torts, crimes against the people, and breaches of loyalty oaths.  I consider sovereign immunity utterly unjustified in most cases because of the essential meaning of the word "republic" - a government in which the law binds the ruler as well as the ruled.

Dr. Lincoln attacked sovereign immunity in footnote 5 of his paper suggesting that Congress must answer questions regarding the valid public debt: 

5  It is extremely important to note that Article I, §6:3 is the only constitutionally express or even implicit grant of "Sovereign Immunity" from suit to any branch of the Federal Government of the United States of America---despite "ad hoc" claims to executive immunity and privilege and judicial constructions of executive, judicial, and general governmental immunity which lack any textual basis in the constitution at all, and would in fact seem to be contradicted by the guarantee of the "right to petition for redress of grievances" in the First Amendment. Claims to governmental immunity for violation of the Constitution are a disease eating away at the marrow of our ideally free, democratic society, and the lawsuit, action in equity, and/or Constitutional declaratory judgment proposed here would be an important step towards limiting this pernicious doctrine (of Federal governmental immunity even for violations of the Constitution).

His observation hints, but does not come out and say, that a Constitution's provision permitting an activity in an instance implicitly prohibits that activity in all other instances.  The 10th Amendment limits the US government to powers the Constitution grants, thereby forbidding it from exercising all other powers, and reposing those in the states and people.  The 9th Amendment acknowledges that the people have a plethora of unidentified rights and powers which stand senior to and outside the reach and control of government powers.  Furthermore, it implicitly limits state power over the people.  These amendments appear to function as a mandate to the courts and the voters to reign in government power at every opportunity, to force confined to those areas the Constitution specifies.  As we all know, the courts have failed to comply with that mandate, such as by construing the power of Congress to regulate interstate commerce as the power to regulate any state activity that might affect interstate commerce.

My point here:  the Constitution's prohibition against questioning of valid public debt imposes a requirement to question the validity of all public debt, and further to question, and indeed denounce all the invalid public debt.  Furthermore, the grant in I.6:3 of sovereign immunity in one limited sense, denies all other senses.  In other words, by failing to mention any other sense, it thereby implicitly prohibits all other forms, senses, or potential instances of sovereign immunity.  For that reason, it imposes an implicit obligation on the public and members of government to sue people in government for their torts, misfeasance, and malfeasance.  In other words, members of government have no sovereign immunity except to the extent the Constitution specifically dictates.

Validity of the Debt

This leads me to assert that lobbying and any influence peddling that causes Congress to create debt might thereby create invalid debt because influencing a legislator does not stop with pointing out the debt's benefits to constituents.  It can include threats of career destruction or harm to a friend or family member, blackmail, bribery, and other coercion.  Any vote for debt under such conditions has zero validity, regardless of otherwise noble motives for the debt.  This same principle could apply to bill riders and other negotiations that amount to vote-buying.  Questioning of public debt for validity would include private and public investigation into the influences on legislator behavior. In my opinion any argument or proposition not directly related to the merit of the central target of the legislation constitutes undue influence. Such questioning should become intense, always, because the public simply cannot trust elected officials to act in the best interest of constituents and IN CONCERT with the law, Constitution, and ideals of good government.  This remains especially true when almost anyone can buy a legislator's vote on some issues for $500 to $1000.

Seen in this light, any legislator, lobbyist, influence peddler, aide, or adviser who operates to create invalid debt SHOULD suffer a lawsuit or criminal prosecution for so operating.

The Point of the Loyalty Oath

Why?  Because the Constitution and numerous laws require federal and state officers, employees, and registered voters to swear oaths of loyalty to support the Constitutions of the US and (for state functionaries) the state.  And yet, no law penalizes breaches of that oath. The absence of such a penalty law obliges the people themselves to sue in law or equity for redress.  

Sovereign immunity exists in an oligarchy because the people have no say over government, owing to the plenary nature of the oligarch's power.  But in a republic, where the law binds rulers and ruled alike, no sovereign immunity can exist.  The above analysis proves it.  Thus, everyone who has ever sworn a loyalty oath as mentioned above owes to the republic the solemn duty to sue and prosecute those other oath takers who breach their corresponding duties, including voting or campaigning for invalid public debt.

SSI as a Trust and Property Right

Dr. Lincoln specifically refers to efforts of the Executive branch to breach the public trust respecting certain valid debts like those to recipients of Social Security Income and Medicare.  He asserts that advocates "sold" the taxation needed to fund these obligations by referring to the tax payments as insurance premiums.  He says passage of the law made the obligations into constructive trusts.  

In fact most SSI recipients worked for decades, paying plenty of money into the treasury in the form of FICA tax which most people believe went into a fund for old age, survivors, and disability insurance.   The fact that it goes into the general fund and Congress allocates money from that fund to pay recipients does not mitigate the responsibility of Government to pay that valid debt.  Dr. Lincoln beautifully makes the point that such entitlements constitute property rights and recipients enjoy, or ought to enjoy, protections  under 5th Amendment defense against government taking property without compensation.  And so, neither the President NOR the Congress should diminish SSI and Medicare benefits, period, end of subject.  Or, if any do diminish it, they should do so only to the extent prospective recipients paid little or nothing into it. 

Obligation of Americans (and Government) to Sue

Thus, Congress ought to respond to President Obama's threats to withhold SSI or Medicare by suing him to enforce specific performance of that obligation - he must order the treasury to pay those obligations off the top. SSI recipients have no less a valid claim on US money than do the nation's other creditors.   Likewise, the President should sue Congress for diminishing the SSI entitlement through legislation, such as laws eliminating the annual inflation adjustments or extending the age limits for payments. 

So, Congress and the President should use lawsuits to answer one another's questions about those specific valid public debts.  Why?  Because the 14th Amendment forbids them from questioning the debts EXCEPT through efforts to determine the extent of the debts' validity.

To summarize:  

Let the lawsuits rain on the wicked in government. "Don't Mess With Our Trust Entitlements."

Bob Hurt        My Blog 2460 Persian Drive #70 Clearwater, FL 33763 Email; Call: (727) 669-5511 Law Studies: Donate   Subscribe Learn to Litigate with Jurisdictionary

War Crimes in Libya. Why Doesn't the West Care?

Pravda doesn't think much of the NATO campaign in Libya.

NATO war crime: Libya water supply

23.07.2011 | Source: 

Pravda.Ru

 

A NATO terrorist attack has hit a water pipes factory in al-Brega, murdering six guards, this being the factory which makes pipes for the great man-made irrigation system across the desert which brings water to seventy per cent of Libyan homes, according to sources in Libya. The factory was hit after the water supply network was destroyed on Friday.

 July 22 2011. A date for humanity to remember. NATO hit the Libyan water supply pipeline. It will take months to repair. Then on Saturday they hit the pipeline factory producing pipes to repair it.

Since when is a water pipes factory in al-Brega a legitimate target to impose a no-fly zone to protect civilians? Sine when is the water supply pipeline itself a legitimate target?

 NATO has committed another war crime, targeting a civilian water supply network which brings water to 70% of Libya's population, according to Pravda.Ru sources in Libya. The general manager of the Man Made River Corporation which controls the pipeline reports it was hit in a NATO strike on Friday. In another clear violation of the law, a consignment from Italy of 19 000 AK-47's was caught in Ajdabiyah by the Libyan authorities, according to Libyan military sources.

 The international community has two choices: to turn a blind eye like cowards and allow NATO to murder Libyan children, murder Libyan civilians and support terrorists with their strikes - we have received information that white phosphorous is being used against Libyan government positions now that NATO is getting desperate- remember Napalm anyone?? The second option is for the international community to use the proper channels to bring pressure on NATO itself and on the politicians in its member states to stop this murderous atrocity, this outrage against civilization and international law, now.

You vote for this campaign? Then you are a child murderer, or sympathise with child murderers. Cameron, Obama and Sarkozy have the blood of hundreds of innocent people on their hands.

 If NATO's contribution to protecting civilians is bombing their water supply then the international community will respond to this heinous war crime, whether or not the politicians do. Will anyone please do something about this horrendous war crime? Or will we all sit back while NATO destroys water supply lines, a civilian structure? Is this protecting civilians or is this an act of revenge because NATO is losing?

 Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey

Pravda.Ru

Maybe Pravda's editors forgot that people support evil governments by failing to do whatever necessary to toss them out.
Qadaffi hasn't done such a bad job setting up that irrigation system to deliver water to the people of Libya, has he? 
Does NATO have to commit war crimes against the populace to make Libyans rise up against their dictator who has watered them?
Most probably don't think their dictator is such a bad guy because they go about their lives with no trouble from him.  So they don't care about the NATO beef.
And who actually wants to oust Qadaffi, anyway if the Libyans don't?  Whose are those boots on the ground?

You don't know do you?

I'll tell you:  Al Quaeda.  Nato is arming Al Quaeda and other ultra terrorists from the Palestine conflict to do the fighting on the ground against Libyan government forces.

Does that remind you of anything?  The Iran/Iraq war?  The USSR/Afghanistan war, perhaps?

It should.  America helps arm the insurgents to get rid of a dictator they don't like, and then spends billions getting rid of the evil Islamic terrorist outfit they armed as insurgents.

I feel inclined to the opinion of Pravda, realizing still that a dictator stays in power only because the populace wrongly allows him to stay in power.  They have as much culpability as the dictaotr for the dictatorship.

In other words, YES, it's a war crime to blow up the irrigation system and the pipe supply system.

So?

--

Bob Hurt        My Blog 2460 Persian Drive #70 Clearwater, FL 33763 Email; Call: (727) 669-5511 Law Studies: Donate   Subscribe Learn to Litigate with Jurisdictionary